7 Responses to “Taking Your Shape: Is it intimacy . . . Connection . . . or Idealized Togetherness?”

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  1. Laurie Laurie

    Oh wow. What a deep post. I would love it if you would post on this again and go into more detail.

    I do have the problem with the hub not wanting to travel (or do anything fun) while I want to enjoy seeing and doing things. In the last 24 years, we have been away from home without kids for alone couple time, three nights. While that is fine with the hub, I really believe that getting away alone is healthy for the marriage. I do feel rejected. I feel like I play second fiddle to the “to do” list he feels must get done. I don’t get why he would rather take out the trash than take out his wife. To me, a compromise would be to go away once every year or two. Not once or twice in a lifetime.

    Yes I do go out with friends, go on trips with friends, but it isn’t the same.

    You said, “Obsession with intimacy leads to less satisfying relationships ” Could you explain that? What would being obsessed look like? What would set that up?

    It almost sounds as if being intimate is being able to tell your spouse things that could hurt them in spite of that fact. For example, my hub asked me yesterday if I was glad I married him. My thoughts are that it doesn’t matter if I am glad I married him or not. I am married and I will stay that way. So if I were being “intimate” with him, would I have told him no if that were the truth? Or would it be better to lie and say yes. Or even better yet, say yes but I would change some things along the way. What is the difference between being intimate and being differentiated? I don’t know about all this. I am still scratching my head here.

  2. Mary Ann Mary Ann

    @Laurie
    Glad you’re willing to keep scratching your head and dig deep!

    “What is the difference between being intimate and being differentiated?”
    Differentiation is a lifelong effort in moving toward emotional maturity and (shameless plug coming) the effort is usually most successful when working with a coach or therapist. We never get to BE differentiated – it’s not an achievable state of being.
    Intimacy can be a relational experience or a descriptive quality of a relationship. IMHO, true intimacy is a marker of our emotional maturity. What most people are looking for when they talk about intimacy is some form of idealized togetherness, usually in the form a reflected sense of self.

    “How does obsession with intimacy leads to less satisfying relationships?”
    The more focused we are on something other on SELF, including the relationship itself, the less satisfying our relationships. The other we are most often focused on is the Other person in our relationship. Working on raising one’s level of differentiation (becoming more emotionally mature) gives new meaning to the old phrase, “It’s all about me.” Self-focus, not in the narcissistic way we’re used to thinking about it, becomes the goal. Some examples of mature self-focus are:

    Who am I most reactive to?
    What’s my part of the problem?
    When do I hold myself accountable?
    Where are my buttons?
    How can I rise to the best in me?

    “What sets up obsession with intimacy?”
    It’s a relating style that we either move toward or away from, strongly shaped by generations of family. What can you identify in each of your backgrounds that set you up for your preferences – the meanings you place on travel and fun, and the meanings he places on duty and responsibility?

    Sometimes we’re not clear with ourselves about what we want. Will you be satisfied for your husband to go places and do things with you, even if that’s not what he wants to do? Or do you “want him to want” to go places and do things with you?

    A common definition of compromise in marriage relationships is moving from competition to cooperation; meeting in the middle. Lots of words have been written to explain how this is a win/win situation, one in which each partner willingly gives up something for the sake of the relationship. We’re usually willing to cooperate when our interests are similar. The more different our interests are, the quicker we’re like to get into conflict over who should move to the middle first!

    In working on emotional maturity, compromise can be the way we give up the hard work of defining self for the comfort of idealized togetherness. Are you compromising your principles or your preferences? Or are you choosing to extend yourself for your partner’s well-being?

    “It almost sounds as if being intimate is being able to tell your spouse things that could hurt them in spite of that fact.”
    Depends. How well have you confronted yourself with the idea that the differences between you are just a way of confronting you with the parts of you that need some work? An honest answer for all of us might be, “I wish I had married someone who didn’t do such a good job of exposing my weaknesses to me.”

  3. V. Higgins V. Higgins

    Love this post! Changing your understanding of marriage to a ‘growing up tool’ really changes how you handle the relationship.
    One thing I’ve been learning in my (short) married life so far is that there is rarely an all-or-nothing. If DH disagrees with me on a point, that doesn’t mean that a)I have to change myself to be just like him or b) that I’ll be eternally unhappy with him because he’s not like me. I’m learning to appreciate and enjoy his differences, even if they don’t make complete sense to me. One area where this has worked well is finances. He’s a saver, I’m a spender. Through communication and being willing to be very uncomfortable we’re working on having a budget that works for us both, and through all of this I have seen more growth in myself in this area than I’ve ever seen before.
    You are right on que that intimacy can be very disconcerting!

  4. This post has given me a lot to think about. The phrase, “How well have you confronted yourself with the idea that the differences between you are just a way of confronting you with the parts of you that need some work? An honest answer for all of us might be, “I wish I had married someone who didn’t do such a good job of exposing my weaknesses to me.”, just blew me away. I grew up with a mom who felt it was her job to expose our weaknesses so that we would be ‘stronger’ than she was. Now it feels like all I want is comfortable, affirmation and everything else feels like pain.
    Mt H. and I often get stuck making decisions we know the other won’t like- caught between guilt and resentment- it’s nasty. WOuld you please be our therapist?

  5. Laurie Laurie

    The hub’s sense of duty, from what I have noticed, stems from his desire to feel competent in spite of his upbringing. Understandable, but he is going about it the wrong way.

    “Or do you “want him to want” to go places and do things with you?”- Yes. I really want to have some adventure in this life. I want to adventure with my spouse. Knowing that is what I want, wouldn’t that be taking care of self? The experience would be a totally different one with a girlfriend. I want exciting experiences with the guy I love. Sex with a girlfriend in a tent in the Grand Canyon just wouldn’t do it for me. Besides, I want to be chosen and wanted by my spouse.

    “Are you compromising your principles or your preferences? Or are you choosing to extend yourself for your partner’s well-being?” When my spouse doesn’t join me on a trip, I am compromising my preferences. I have extended myself my going with a friend instead or even going by myself. I wanted to go camping by myself because hub wouldn’t go but the hub said no due to safety issues. So once again, I took a friend. Doing things by myself would be extending myself. What other ways would you see extending one’s self?

    “I wish I had married someone who didn’t do such a good job of exposing my weaknesses to me.”- oh my. Boy did you hit the target. Yes I do want him to change so I don’t have to deal with me. You turned on a light for me here. I do want him to be the person I want him to be so I feel close to him and am not tempted to search elsewhere for what he doesn’t provide. I know that the issue is within myself. The fact that I can’t feel connected enough. Most of the time, I am not sure what it is I want, I just want. It really drives me crazy. And if the hub would just cooperate and make the changes I need him to make, I wouldn’t have to do the painful part of searching within. If he would just be the person I want him to be, my pain would go away. But then what if after I searched inside myself, I still can’t figure it all out? I just figured out I really do think all of this. Hummmm. Not the best thing to admit eh?

  6. Mary Ann Mary Ann

    @starrlife
    “I grew up with a mom who felt it was her job to expose our weaknesses so that we would be ’stronger’ than she was. Now it feels like all I want is comfortable, affirmation and everything else feels like pain.”
    Sometimes it seems as though not much is more powerful than those old emotional triggers – after all, they are what shaped us. Self-awareness – recognizing the patterns that shaped us – is an essential first step in taking on self.
    Emotional maturity is an adult developmental task. It’s the job of learning how to harness the energy imbedded in our emotional triggers that panders to the worst in us and transform it into responsibility and accountability that rises to the best in us.

    What happens if you remind yourself when you are avoiding pain in your relationship because of pain in your childhood, “That was then and this is now. I choose this pain to grow now in this relationship.”

    @Laurie
    “The hub’s sense of duty, from what I have noticed, stems from his desire to feel competent in spite of his upbringing. Understandable, but he is going about it the wrong way.”
    “I know that the issue is within myself. The fact that I can’t feel connected enough. Most of the time, I am not sure what it is I want, I just want. It really drives me crazy.”
    I notice that you’ve spent more time analyzing how hub came to be and what’s right or wrong with his reaction to it than you have understanding how you came to be. We are so easily lured into “other-focus.”

    “Besides, I want to be chosen and wanted by my spouse.”
    What ways is your hub choosing and wanting you that you haven’t noticed, or perhaps even ignored? How much energy have you put into wanting him, whether he reciprocates in kind or not? Wanting to be wanted is distinctly different from wanting your spouse. Wanting (much more than sexual wanting) always involves risk. Do you want to know what he thinks and feels, even if it is not what you want to hear? What do you know that is good and true about him?

    “When my spouse doesn’t join me on a trip, I am compromising my preferences. What other ways would you see extending one’s self?”
    I think we stretch ourselves when we sign on to tolerate pain for growth.

    “And if the hub would just cooperate and make the changes I need him to make, I wouldn’t have to do the painful part of searching within. If he would just be the person I want him to be, my pain would go away. But then what if after I searched inside myself, I still can’t figure it all out?”
    These words sound like the beginning of tolerating pain for growth to me. I can’t think of a better way to extend yourself than to embrace the task of “taking on self.”
    Not the best thing to admit eh?”
    Self-awareness and self-confrontation – these are high on my list of “best things!”

  7. Laurie Laurie

    You are correct in that I have spent so much time figuring him and his family out. It was easy to do as an outsider looking in. Especially when they affected my life so much. When we first married, I was overwhelmed by all of the unwritten rules of their family that I would only find out about when I violated one. SO I spent a good bit of time feeling angry, set up, and unjustly accused. You are right, we (I) are others focused. It makes for less personal trauma if it isn’t my fault. right? (sarcasm)

    A couple of weeks ago I wrote on our mirror all the things that I could come up with that were good and true about him. I did this in response to him not believing he had anything good in himself. Do I want to know what is inside him even if it is not what I want to hear? Probably not. He has very self defeating thoughts that frustrate me. His self esteem is extremely low. He has in the past shared some thoughts with me that left me feeling harmed and wounded, very wounded. My fear is that if I really got into his head it would be more than I could handle without a weekly appointment. While he is in a better place now, he still has his moments. My hope for him is that he would consider the possibility that he is good inside. That he is competent, and loving, and worthwhile, worthy of good, and wonderful. So with all of this said, I feel like I have strained myself at times to want him especially when I was being rejected, being told or shown I was a mistake, or when he was telling me how he was worthless.

    It’s funny, when my hub was in his worst place, I hurt because of what he said and did. I just wanted him to get to a better place not only for him but for me as well. I hadn’t had the life I wanted with him. We had either been infected by in-law-itis or by his depression (or so I thought). Now that the in-laws are more like a mosquito buzzing around my head, and he is in a better place, I feel better but worse at the same time. I feel better in that my life isn’t in constant crisis mode but I feel worse in that I continue to feel bad but have no one to look at for the cause except me. I hate that because that would then lead to the revelation that I am the only one who can do anything about it. Damn.

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