We’re exploring the world of Nice Guys and thus far this seems to have resonated with several readers.
To continue this discussion I want to unpack this a bit more and get into what will bring about a Nice Guy Rebellion.
Nice Guys all carry with them the fundamental belief that if they are good enough and do what others expect them to do they will be loved, cared for, and have a smooth and happy life.
When you get right down to it, this is purely a manipulation. It’s an act in order to attain something from someone else.
Here’s a classic example that may have even played out in your marriage.
It’s not uncommon that the Nice Guy will do things throughout the day in hopes that his wife will be interested in sex later that night. I’ve even come across some posts on other blogs promoting this idea: Learn how vacuuming will lead to love or Learn the power of the L-spot (laundry). What makes this a manipulation, and a common Nice Guy move, is the giving from the Nice Guy is in an area unrelated to the desire he hopes is met. It’s a hoping for sex without asking.
Household responsibilities are just that, responsibilities. You are both in charge of that area of your life together. If you help out with the kids (which you likely helped create by the way) or you do chores or cook or provide for your family – that may loosen the belt to her pants a bit, but if what you really desire is to get in her pants, tell her. Speak up. She probably already sees straight through your attempt at manipulating them off her anyway.
Now back to more characteristics of the Nice Guy.
Everybody has a couple of these traits, Nice Guys have most of them.
- Gives to others in expectation that they will return something back. At the core this is manipulative. The Nice Guy hopes that if he gives to others, they will in turn give back to him, without him having to ask for or express his desires or needs. This is why Nice Guys are fix it guys and caretakers at heart. They think that if they can solve other people’s problems they’ll receive love in return.
- Seeks approval from others. Nice Guys are defined by those around them. Parents, spouse, co-workers, friends, careers. Everything they do is calculated to gain someone’s approval or avoid disapproval.
- Avoid conflict like the plague. Nothing disrupts the Nice Guy’s world more than conflict, therefore it is often avoided at all cost. Especially when it comes to spouse and family.
- Avoid exposing their humanness. Nice Guys believe that if they display their perceived flaws or mistakes, others will disapprove and possible leave them. When faced with their mistakes, Nice Guys are experts at deflecting the issue or blame.
- Coupled with the previous point, Nice Guys will repress their feelings. They choose to analyze things rather than feel. They believe they can think their way through everything. They have trouble sharing how they feel with others. And the times they do display their feelings it’s often only through angry outbursts and eruptions.
- Must be politically correct. In fact, look up Nice Guy in the dictionary and you’ll see a politician’s face.
- More comfortable relating to women than men. Nice Guys often have few male friends.
- Have trouble expressing or making their needs and wants a priority. Nice Guys live in fear of being seen as selfish.
While the Nice Guy is prominent in our society, the answer is not found in going to the other extreme. The opposite of crazy is still crazy. The Nice Guy Rebellion is found in the idea of growing up, although not specifically as I written before.
To me, a Nice Guy Rebel (or manly man):
- Has a strong sense of self. He knows who he is … and who he’s not. He knows his strengths and limitations. Plus, he likes himself just as he is.
- Has come to the realization that it’s up to him to take responsibility for getting his needs and desires met. I believe that nobody can take care of you better than you. So a man takes responsibility for himself and his desires, not at the expense of others however, because that would be going to the other extreme.
- Recognizes that gender is important. He’s comfortable with his masculinity and sexuality.
- Speaks the truth. Truth is truth – and a man can handle both hearing it and speaking it. While we’re on the subject, let’s briefly discuss lying. Anything less than the truth is a lie. Leaving something out in order to skirt a conflict is a lie. Be willing to speak the truth and take the hit for it if necessary.
- Is a leader without being controlling. This may ruffle a few feathers but here goes. I truly believe that men were created to lead. To provide for and protect those he loves. Most of the women I’ve counseled have longed for their husbands to step up and lead the family. Sadly, many men have sat on the sidelines. Falling victim to the belief that if they provide for the family that’s enough. Leadership requires love, sacrifice, care, power, grace, strength, passion and even partnership at times.
- Has integrity. He lives from his core values and beliefs. He does what’s in line with his values not just what’s expedient.
- Works through conflict. A man knows that conflict in inevitable so he doesn’t run from it. Instead, he’s solid enough to confront the issues in his life by speaking the truth, accepting others influence, asking for help when necessary, and letting go of his attachment to the outcome of each situation. He knows he can’t control everything in his life and lets go of those things beyond his control.
- Can be nurturing and caring without being Mr. Fix It. Men do have a tender and caring side and a Nice Guy Rebel can listen attentively without trying to fix things or being defensive in reaction to someone elses feelings.
- Can be passionate and emotionally expressive. Although society has conditioned us that there are only a couple of acceptable emotions (happiness, anger, and sadness) a man can feel and express all his emotions. Men and women are all emotional beings. Live from them. It’s part of the pathway to a passionate life.
Let me close my part of this discussion with this thought – I believe that men and women were created intentionally as male and female. They’re complimentary. One gender is not better than the other. The whole point of this whole thing is to be better … a better man … a better woman. Be who you are! We each have a part to play in the story of our lives. So be a good character in your story, as you were created to be.
To me there is nothing more attractive than a person with self respect and a solid sense of self. This comes through growing up. So I say let’s start a Nice Guy (or Nice Girl) Rebellion and all live lives fully alive!
Your thoughts?
Source – Robert Glover, No More Mr. Nice Guy
I’m still extremely interested in what a feminine woman would be different from this — it still seems like a list that are virtues that would be important for any adult. Apparently, as far as I can tell, she wouldn’t be a leader. Submitting to her husband, perhaps?
Though, I think that you missed an important trait of leadership: knowing when to follow. We all have strengths, and sometimes we are not always the best leader for a situation. Leadership doesn’t necessarily mean the ability to provide, though. (What about people who are unemployed right now, and “emasculated” or even just “without options” by the economy?) Leadership sometimes means marshaling the resources that you have.
“Leadership sometimes means marshaling the resources that you have.” Absolutely.
Providing for the family doesn’t mean money only. It could be all sorts of things. Actually, in my family I am the primary caregiver for our kids while my wife works full time. It plays to our strengths and works for us at this point in our life and marriage.
And yes – the list of virtues would be important for any adult.
I think the difference is not in type but quantity. All of these attributes should be applicable to all healthy, well balanced adults, but some are going to show up more often in men than women (and vice versa).
Women tend to be better at nurturing, that doesn’t mean that men should shun that attribute, but we should allow women to dwell in their area of strength. Also men should be allowed to dwell in their area of strength. When I think about protecting my wife, strange things happen in my heart – I feel called to protect her (and to a lesser degree, other women) as best I can.
Masculinity and femininity should be about being free to live out the strengths of our character instead of being obligated to attain an image that someone else has for us. Men and women tend to have different strengths.
Good points, especially the “marshalling the resources…” part. However, just as a side note… Leadership is not knowing when to follow… (then you would no longer be ‘leading’, it’s knowing when to ‘serve’ as a leader.
Great post it was dean on target! I thought your observation that nice guys have more women friends than men friends to be interesting. I agree with you. My question is why do you think that happens?
I think there are several reasons for this, the biggest of which is most boys in the past couple of decades have been raised by women, or by themselves as latchkey kids, with little deep male influence. Plus, there has been a movement where it’s not socially acceptable for young boys to be rambunctious young boys.
To get it back men to be be around other men.
In fact, one of the best things a husband can do for his wife is have a couple of close male friends.
Great post! I liked your comment about men being the leaders. I take a lot of heat from girl friends because I believe that my husband is the ultimate decision maker and leader of our family. That does not mean he arbitrarily makes decisions, we talk about them and we usually agree on what needs to be done. However, on the rare occurrences that we don’t agree he takes the lead in making the final decision. I was raised to believe that if a man is leading with love then he has the best interest of his family first in his mind and it is not demeaning and does not take away the value of the wife’s thoughts and opinions to let him be the leader of the family. It works well for us. I wish more women were confident enough to allow their husbands to lead and that more men were willing to grow up and lead. I think a lot of relationships would be stronger for it.
Well done! I think you explained the differences between a Nice Guy and Manly Man very clearly.
We don’t need to chew tobacco and ride bulls in order to be manly. Manliness is being brave enough to step into the line of fire for the sake of family and honor. Something as simple as me asking the waiter to correct my wife’s order is manly – I’m taking on that conflict to be a servant to her.
In response to the inevitable backlash regarding the different roles (characteristics, or whatever) of men and women, I think that the brain science has a lot to say. Brain Rules talks about the fact that male and female brains are different, very different. Now we can argue all day about what those differences mean, but they are there and they are well attested in the neuroscience community.
“Manliness is being brave enough to step into the line of fire for the sake of family and honor.”
Great statement James.
I like being with my wife because I think being with her makes me become a better person. It may be her feminine side, her intellect, her integrity, her honesty or whatever that adds to my life. But I am not so sure that it is so important that we complement each other based on our different sexes.
I’m not sure what your last statement means as it seems to prove my point about male and female being complementary of each other. No one wants to be in a relationship with their clone, that would get real boring real fast.
Well done, I think it’s a great post, especially the part about the rebel being passionate and emotionally expressive. I’ve long thought that a good portion of the problems men have with “expressing their emotions” was caused by the culture (even the marriage advice gurus) constantly beating the drum that we are all emotionally retarded.
It’s interesting what you said about doing the laundry and such… it’s not that I strongly disagree, but I’m curious what do you think about the Dr. Leman, Sex Begins in the Kitchen type of idea, and/or the classic His Needs Her Needs, and how they might fit with what you are talking about.
If one persons need, or love language, is physical touch or and the other’s is acts of service (I said person because it can go either gender-direction), is it inherently “nice guy” to look forward to your mate reciprocating your love, speaking each others language and meeting each other’s needs?
Popular culture and the media have beaten down men in the past decade, portraying them as clueless, bumbling idiots who couldn’t exist without the help of a woman. It’s made it more difficult to be a good man today, but it also makes the good men stand out (which is why these posts have generated good discussions as well as why some of the mens movements took off several years ago).
As for Dr. Leman’s work (which I like) I think he takes a very respectable view of sex, namely that sex involves more than just your genitals, it’s a whole body, mind, spirit and soul experience – at least it can become that!
His Needs Her Needs is indeed a classic and I have no issue with the foundational premise of the work – men and women have different basic needs and wiring. The only thing I don’t agree with is the idea that your spouse is there to meet your needs and you are to meet theirs, thus your spouse would complete you.
So how do you go from first list of bullet points to 2nd list of bullet points? You can’t just flip a magic switch and suddenly be filled with self confidence? Staying tuned.
I used to think this is “just the way I am” yet whenever I start reading this blog, I start to think maybe I’ve been doing it wrong.
Mr. Smith – I think the best way to go from one list to the other is in the company of other men going through the process together. As the saying goes- iron sharpens iron.
And I wouldn’t state that you’re doing it wrong. But perhaps there is another way that may work better. I don’t think anyone does life wrong, they simply do what they know and the best they can with what they have.
Thank you for this post. I saw my husband all over yesterday’s post and asked him to read it. It hurt a little, he even had tears in his eyes. We’ve decided to order the book that you suggested and found ourselves asking: what next? I appreciate today’s post because it somewhat answers that question. I look forward to a part 3!
Great follow-up to yesterday’s post. I like both of your lists and think they are quite accurate in the contrast they paint.
I agree wholeheartedly with you about God making men and women to be two different and complementary creatures. It’s not about more or less, smarter or dumber, or who is more important or valued. I believe marriage was God’s idea, and as designer, I think he created it to work in a specific way. It is absolutely a partnership but with differing roles. I know that idea makes some people really uncomfortable.
I just finished a post called “The Myth of Equality” in case you want to see a few additional thoughts related to this thread.
You’ve obviously put a lot of though into this. Thanks. And keep up the good work.
I think this article (series, if you include the first one) is the best you’ve ever published. My marriage fell apart recently precisely because of this theme. We are now reconciling… though he has reconciled only to leave again, before. This has been going on for 19 months (after 17 years of being together.) Everything you said was so spot-on, including, but not limited to, especially female-only relationships (which led to multiple emotional affairs and infidelity), as well as women wanting their spouses to lead (or at least co-lead!) the family rather than just “provide”.
Hi Corey – I agree with what you are saying here. I don’t always like it when Mr. Right leads me, but in the end, I love him more for doing it.
It seems to me that when a woman, or anyone for that matter, is led with love and their best interest at heart it would produce more love in the end.
As to why mostly female friends? When in the company of other men you feel you are being judged on the “manly scale”, and you don’t like being reminded where you fall on that. Generally there is a competitiveness among men and you don’t see yourself as the competitive type, so you feel they probably see you as a loser for that. You like the attention from women you get for being the non-manipulative down-to-earth guy who’s not technically trying to get in their pants. You are “safe” for them to talk to. Especially if you are already in a relationship. Sadly, the hetero version of the gay guy-friend.
The words masculine and feminine aren’t really appropriate for this discussion.
Relationships historically worked when men were masculine (strong, providers), and women were feminine (passive, givers)… then we shifted to nouveau feminism, where women were strong and capable providers, and we ended up with nice guy syndrome. We aren’t striving for men to man-up and woman to become more feminine again. We’ve been there and done that. We striving for balance where both people take on all the positive connotations associated with masculinity… and feminity. Such as owning your circumstances and feelings, being assertive – while communicating effectively and compromising. It means that each person in the relationship is taking responsibility and owning up to the challenges that life is presenting them. Sometimes one partner is giving more then the other, but it’s ok because things will shift the other way for a while too. Partners just need to be aware of the when, why and how things have slipped.
It requires Nice guys, nice girls, macho guys and macho girls to grow up and become equal partners in their relationships.
Nice post! I think we all have a bit of the “Nice guy” in us, because let’s face it, we all like to look good to other people. So we spin who were are in an effort to manipulate people into liking us. I would call this “the PR agent” because that’s what Nice Guys are… really good at PR. The problem with hiring your own PR agent in your relationships is that you never really are known for who you are, and then you don’t get to experience the highs and lows of true intimacy. Sucks to be you
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I wrote a two blog posts about this a while back:
http://frameshiftcoaching.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/the-dark-underbelly-of-the-fear-of-non-acceptance/
http://frameshiftcoaching.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/designing-your-life-part-ii-the-pr-agent/
I still don’t quite agree with the idea that men have to be the leader in a marriage. Marriage is a partnership with no one person leading most of the time. Why can’t you lead the family together? Why can’t two people be leaders simultaneously–working to gain consensus? Or, if that’s not possible (which sometimes it isn’t) to alternate leadership according to the situation/needs/strengths of the individual? In areas where the wife has more knowledge and more skills, she should lead and in areas where the husband has more knowledge and skills, he should lead. Otherwise it should be both together in consensus.Understand that I am not saying the man should always abdicate leadership to his wife, but neither should the wife always have to abdicate leadership to her husband. And Yes, leadership is more than being a “provider”, but I would call that responsibility as much as leadership. Both husband and wife have a responsibility to one another and to the family.
I think we are saying the same thing. Leadership is not control or dictatorship, leadership is more responsibility and strength, which is often found in both the husband and the wife.
My belief is a great leader collaborates and works with those around them to lead – which is exactly what you’re saying as well.
I suppose I feel as strongly for husband-led marriages as some do here against the idea. My sense is that much of the argument over the question of authority and submission comes from the fact that we see them through the wrong lens. We equate authority and leadership with an autocratic and dictitorial boss instead of a servant-hearted lover and protector. We equate submission with defeat and loss instead of with freedom, peace and fulfillment. I’ve been posting about this authority question over at my blog: http://surrenderedmarriage.blogspot.com
Corey, thanks for having the fortitude to broach this sometimes conentious but very important topic.
I stewed over it all weekend, and feel I need to come to the defense of the Nice Guy a bit here. At least as I recognized myself in the description in the original “Syndrome” post. I take issue with the bullet point of the N.g. as manipulator and the PC politician reference.
(For the record I think I’m a nice guy. Sometimes I struggle with – Am I a pushover? Am I raising wimpy kids?, Sometimes it’s a defense mechanism, “because at least I’m not a jerk!” Most of the time I am OK with being N.G. because (to mirror) I have a strong sense of Self…..)
I don’t think the Nice Guy would intentionally manipulate like that – if flies in the face of the last point, appearing to be selfish. He doesn’t expect or demand the return, although he probably hopes for one. Is that wimpy? The N.G. sees himself as genuine, not a charming two-face. It’s what separates him from smarmy politician types and jerks. It’s also why he is easily manipulated, taken advantage of, and worked around, and thus rarely gets what he wants and always finishes last. I would not say he’s PC like a politician (the charming two-face who usually does always gets what he wants) but he is concerned with not hurting anybody else’s feelings. Therefore he wouldn’t insist on having someone do something they don’t want to do (like have sex, in your earlier example, or have the relationship hinge on sex.)
But overall – spot on observations. (point #5 – he analyzes & overthinks). You’re right – I do hold it all in until I erupt in a angry outburst of bullet pointed logic & reason. Et cetera.
Thanks for the comment. It’s interesting to me that when it comes to the concept of selfishness – the only time this word is thrown around is when someone else feels like their wishes or desires aren’t being met. So selfishness is often only used as a way to guilt someone else into doing something else.
Interesting discussion, Corey! I’m lucky enough to be married to a “manly man” as you call him. He’s sacrificial and strong at the same time. I posted on How to Get/Be a Real Man in Marriage which touches on some similar themes. http://wp.me/pgTZD-3H I think the nice guy syndrome often begins innocently enough when we as young, modern women think we are helping our guys, but instead become rather controlling. Men won’t reach their potential when they aren’t given the ability to fully use their skills and assets. Worse, they may turn to another woman who makes them feel masculine, worthy and strong.
I’m jared, a grateful recovered nice-guy. Previously I would say exactly what you wanted to hear, I suffered from severe conflict avoidance.
Today my feelings about myself come from myself. I’m happier and more free than ever. Today I am a nice guy to myself first and foremost. Pain, depression, and desperation was my motivator to change.
Thanks so much for writing this – it’s very insightful and i appreciate anything that can help me better understand the people i care about.
There is a lot of things that I would like to address from this article. Keep in mind that even thou I take exception to some of thing said these point; I don’t entirely disagree with all of it.
Gives to others in expectation that they will return something back. At the core this is manipulative. The Nice Guy hopes that if he gives to others, they will in turn give back to him, without him having to ask for or express his desires or needs. This is why Nice Guys are fix it guys and caretakers at heart. They think that if they can solve other people’s problems they’ll receive love in return.
I don’t believe this is manipulative, because it is common sense to treat others the way you would want to be treated. There are men that tactics like washing the dishes, and doing the lanudry as a way of getting sex. However, men have been told by women that they are turned off by men that don’t help around the house. Some women have said that the sexiest thing their husband can do was to wash a dish. To say that men are being manipulative by doing household in exchange for sex when they been told that not doing helping with household is why women are no longer sexually attarcted is contradicting. I’m not saying men should expect sex for washing a dish, because it something they are supposed to do as member of house. It is just that people need to think about what they are saying. If household is something expected out of someone then it shouldn’t be a factor on their sex life.
Seeks approval from others. Nice Guys are defined by those around them. Parents, spouse, co-workers, friends, careers. Everything they do is calculated to gain someone’s approval or avoid disapproval.
Yes, there are nice guys that care what people think, but they also care about making be happy. Nice guys constanly what to make the people in their lives happy even at their own expense. By making people around them happy it makes them happpy. Love is sacrifice and they show their love through sacrifice. It is not really a bad quaility it becomes bad when they sacrifice too much. Nice guys really are just trying to do right thing in the people in their lives rather it is in terms of friendship, family, career. The things they do is not always to gain approval, but simply doing it because it the right thing to do. There are so many nice guys that complain that get nothing in return for doing what they feel is right. Nice guys are guilty for being a little naive that by doing good deeds that good things will happen to them it return. Unfortunately, nice guys constanly don’t get the apporval, respect, or caring that they deserve. Nice guys shouldn’t be criticized for wanting to do good things just that their doing it with a level head and for the right reasons.
Avoid conflict like the plague. Nothing disrupts the Nice Guy’s world more than conflict, therefore it is often avoided at all cost. Especially when it comes to spouse and family.
I don’t know whether nice guys don’t like conflict or just don’t like unnecessary conflict. I believe for the most part nice guys know that there will be conflict in a relationship, but if there no need for conflict feel that it is best left alone. There are women that avoid conflict because they don’t what to appear as the nag of the relationship. Men also avoid conflict because they don’t what to appear as being the nag of the relationship. In terms of family nice guys are quite frequently put the position of being the peace keeper and when you are known for being the peace keeper of the family you are not put into a postion to instigate conflict. I believe when there is conflict that needs to be address most nice guys do address it, but when it something that can be overlooked why cause conflict when there doesn’t need to be any.
Avoid exposing their humanness. Nice Guys believe that if they display their perceived flaws or mistakes, others will disapprove and possible leave them. When faced with their mistakes, Nice Guys are experts at deflecting the issue or blame.
I am not sure if that is entirely true for two reasons. Since nice guys like to be in control wouldn’t they like work themselves. Nice guys are constanly known as control freaks and in order to be in control they have to be in control of themselves. Control freaks try to project an aura of pefection they are constanly working on their flaws and quirks in order to contain that aura of perfection. When someone calls them out on their flaws instead of deflecting they would probably say ” Yes, I know I do that. I try to work on myself” because again they are trying to display aura of perfection so arguing or trying to deflect blame would make them appear less perfect and more flawed. The second reason is that nice guy that are shy and timid have a hard time speaking up. Since they have a hard time speaking up people constanley use this as advantage to blame them for their fault (especially in the workplace). When confronted with blame the timid nice guy most of the time just accepts it instead of defending himself. If a nice guy ever deflected blame it is probably because they worked so hard on themselves yet feel that people only see the negative or feel they are been blamed for everything and don’t feel like accepting that burden. I’m not speaking for all men that are considered are nice guys, because I am sure that there are nice guys experts of deflecting blame. However, I don’t believe that most nice guys are not this way.
Coupled with the previous point, Nice Guys will repress their feelings. They choose to analyze things rather than feel. They believe they can think their way through everything. They have trouble sharing how they feel with others. And the times they do display their feelings it’s often only through angry outbursts and eruptions.
I have a lot problems with this statment. First, I have the problem with criticizing nice guy or anyone for that matter for choosing logic over emotion. In today’s society encourages to express emotion in even at the expense of logic. People are told feelings are not right or wrong; that their feelings always valid and that is simply not true. Emotions can be irrational and sometimes even unreliable. I’m not that emotion are wrong, because a lot of the time feelings can be vaild. However, people can’t go by emotions alone and would have to be forced to use their brain. There is nothing wrong with being self-reflective and analyzing your feelings. Analyzing your feelings can help you understand why you feel the way you feel. Although, be over analytical can get in way of taking action. I do believe that nice guys should express how they feel, but they should do so with logic, and have an solution oriented approach. I believe when people are confronted with their feelings that they should stop, think, and then take action.
Must be politically correct. In fact, look up Nice Guy in the dictionary and you’ll see a politician’s face.
I also have have a problem with this statement. Granted, I’m not really a fan of politically correctness, because it gets in the way of someone telling what is really on their mind. However, I do have a problem with people being politically incorrect just for its own sake. People have become so frustrated with politically correctness that they rebel against like a immature teenager. I don’t like when people say controversial just for sake of being controversial or being vulgar just for the sake of being vulgar. I believe that people have the right to be political incorrect when it is necessary.
More comfortable relating to women than men. Nice Guys often have few male friends.
I believe the reason nice guys can relate women more then men is because nice guys are more likely to senstive and more thoughtful then a lot of men are. When nice guys do have male friends they have trouble relating them, because if their surrender by guys that have stereotypical male characteristics that often treat nice guys as the loser of the group. Men that posses stereotypical male qualities have hard time relating to nice guys. So if a lot males can’t relate and nice guys can’t relate them then why would they be friends? Is it really bad thing that nice guy can relate to women more? No, it not. If nice guys respect their female friends and they respect him then there is nothing wrong with that.
Have trouble expressing or making their needs and wants a priority. Nice Guys live in fear of being seen as selfish.
I agree with the fact that nice guy should express their needs and wants more. However, in relationship it expected that both spouses put the needs of each other before their own. It expected for the boyfriend or husband to his girlfriend or wife’s needs ahead of his own and vice versa. I think both spouse should learn how to balance self-lessness and selfishness. To put the head of spouse need first without neglecting their own.
Late to this convo but hey…. I see alot of interesting points in this discussion and article but I do disagree with the male leadership idea here. I do look for a grown up when I look to my husband. I look for someone who can stand up and say this is me, these are my faults these are my strengths, this is what I want and I like to think that I will “submit” when he has better skills at something than I do and vice versa. That’s what I call the teamwork model. It’s less focused on a hierarchy/power issue and more focused on sharing/collaboration. This is somewhat influenced by traits and gender but not subsumed by them. If he knows the way, he leads, if I know the way should he still lead? Same for initiating sex- if I want it I’ll ask, if wants it he asks?