Comments on: The Value Of Values http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html Keep it simple. Make it better. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:01:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Julian http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-8007 Julian Tue, 06 Jul 2010 07:35:44 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-8007 It is an extreme example, but stated to make the point that all values are not relative, some are better than others. So, what do you define as a value? On what basis do you evaluate values? You stated that no values are better than any other. A thorough study of anthropology, psychology, history, philosophy, logic, classic literature, or in general a good liberal education would likely convince you otherwise. My main objection with the essay was your statement that there is no right or wrong, something that is wrecking havoc on marriages. Lets analyze your three prong approach: Rule #3:If somebody’s values do appear to be quite blatantly wrong and even an idiot can see that, refer back to rule one. Rule #1: There is no right or wrong. Only right or wrong for the individual. Your values are right for you and mine are right for me. No two people will have the same values. There is no right or wrong is what you said, and my statement is the logical conclusion. PS, my patients not clients, love me, although even if they didn't I would be overwhelmed due to the shortage of psychiatrists, but I base my decisions on peer-reviewed evidence-based studies and on logic and reason, not feelings. "The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Chesterton "Don't be so open-minded that your brain falls out" It is an extreme example, but stated to make the point that all values are not relative, some are better than others. So, what do you define as a value? On what basis do you evaluate values? You stated that no values are better than any other. A thorough study of anthropology, psychology, history, philosophy, logic, classic literature, or in general a good liberal education would likely convince you otherwise. My main objection with the essay was your statement that there is no right or wrong, something that is wrecking havoc on marriages.

Lets analyze your three prong approach:

Rule #3:If somebody’s values do appear to be quite blatantly wrong and even an idiot can see that, refer back to rule one.
Rule #1: There is no right or wrong. Only right or wrong for the individual. Your values are right for you and mine are right for me. No two people will have the same values.

There is no right or wrong is what you said, and my statement is the logical conclusion.

PS, my patients not clients, love me, although even if they didn’t I would be overwhelmed due to the shortage of psychiatrists, but I base my decisions on peer-reviewed evidence-based studies and on logic and reason, not feelings.

“The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.” – Chesterton

“Don’t be so open-minded that your brain falls out”

]]> By: Tim Brownson http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-8005 Tim Brownson Tue, 06 Jul 2010 02:01:20 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-8005 Are you being serious? Where did you get that rape can be a value? Seriously, where other than in your own head did I say or even infer that? Your clients must love you and your open-minded attitude ;-) Are you being serious?

Where did you get that rape can be a value? Seriously, where other than in your own head did I say or even infer that?

Your clients must love you and your open-minded attitude ;-)

]]> By: PsychMD http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-8004 PsychMD Tue, 06 Jul 2010 01:11:09 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-8004 As a psychiatrist, I disagree with your premise, which pretty much forms the basis of much of the article, that values are relative, and none are more important then the next. So if I believe that rape is okay and females should not have an education, is that fine because each person is entitled to their own values? All values are not equal, and just because everyone is entitled to their own opinion does not mean it is the correct opinion. That is a modern problem that has plagued society, and where all the mess started in the first place. Classical Greek philosophy believed in absolute truth, divine law, and natural law, which can be the only basis for the determination of values. People may have different values, but does not mean that everyone has the right values. In matters of taste and opinion yes, but not in matters of right and wrong. Killing of innocent women will never be right in any circumstance, no matter what opinion the person holds. This is relativism. Secondly, it is much better to have core values in common in a marriage then not to. There are going to be countless areas where you will have to compromise in any relationship, no matter how compatible they are. There is no reason to make it more difficult by having different core values, things that you might not be willing to compromise on. As a psychiatrist, I disagree with your premise, which pretty much forms the basis of much of the article, that values are relative, and none are more important then the next. So if I believe that rape is okay and females should not have an education, is that fine because each person is entitled to their own values? All values are not equal, and just because everyone is entitled to their own opinion does not mean it is the correct opinion. That is a modern problem that has plagued society, and where all the mess started in the first place. Classical Greek philosophy believed in absolute truth, divine law, and natural law, which can be the only basis for the determination of values. People may have different values, but does not mean that everyone has the right values. In matters of taste and opinion yes, but not in matters of right and wrong. Killing of innocent women will never be right in any circumstance, no matter what opinion the person holds. This is relativism.
Secondly, it is much better to have core values in common in a marriage then not to. There are going to be countless areas where you will have to compromise in any relationship, no matter how compatible they are. There is no reason to make it more difficult by having different core values, things that you might not be willing to compromise on.

]]> By: John http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3102 John Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:20:19 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3102 @ Tim: Unlikely, maybe. Impossible, no....this I can assure you from experience :) @ Tim: Unlikely, maybe. Impossible, no….this I can assure you from experience :)

]]> By: Tim Brownson http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3089 Tim Brownson Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:43:15 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3089 @ Pearl - I certainly don't disagree that there maybe joint values within a relationship. @ Mary Ann - You know, I really don't get that at all. When I read Steve Pavlina's book I was the same way. The principles you talk of are concepts to my mind. There is no definitive 'Truth'. Not one that can be explained anyway. I prefer the Buddhist philosophy with this "If you can describe or explain truth then that isn't it" OTOH, I'd love to read more and if you can point me in the right direction I would be grateful. @ John - Firstly, in my experience not everybody does share the values you talk of, but that's beside the point. If you are completely opposed on ALL major values, then I think it's unlikely you'd ever get married in the first place to be honest. I guess Corey is better qualified to answer that question than I am if I'm being honest. @ Pearl – I certainly don’t disagree that there maybe joint values within a relationship.

@ Mary Ann – You know, I really don’t get that at all. When I read Steve Pavlina’s book I was the same way. The principles you talk of are concepts to my mind. There is no definitive ‘Truth’. Not one that can be explained anyway. I prefer the Buddhist philosophy with this “If you can describe or explain truth then that isn’t it”

OTOH, I’d love to read more and if you can point me in the right direction I would be grateful.

@ John – Firstly, in my experience not everybody does share the values you talk of, but that’s beside the point.

If you are completely opposed on ALL major values, then I think it’s unlikely you’d ever get married in the first place to be honest. I guess Corey is better qualified to answer that question than I am if I’m being honest.

]]> By: John http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3087 John Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:31:51 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3087 Let's suppose you have differing values on just about everything "controversial". I mean, everybody shares values about being kind and the golden rule, etc....I expect everybody would share those values anyway. But what if you disagree on politics, religion, abortion, together time v. alone time, diet, fitness, entertainment, music--you share no common ground on matters of opinion or taste. What do you focus on to keep that sort of a relationship together, or is it one that is really doomed to failure or unhappiness anyway? Let’s suppose you have differing values on just about everything “controversial”. I mean, everybody shares values about being kind and the golden rule, etc….I expect everybody would share those values anyway. But what if you disagree on politics, religion, abortion, together time v. alone time, diet, fitness, entertainment, music–you share no common ground on matters of opinion or taste. What do you focus on to keep that sort of a relationship together, or is it one that is really doomed to failure or unhappiness anyway?

]]> By: Mary Ann Crossno http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3086 Mary Ann Crossno Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:11:19 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3086 I think that one reason people flap around without knowing what their values are is because they are unclear about what a value is. As a result, we confuse values for principles, and fight over preferences. A principle is a truth - a fundamental belief - that lays the foundation for other truths. Principles shape our values. Values are the building blocks for principles. Values often change with cultural changes, whereas principles are timeless. If my foundation is a belief that relationships have a purpose, and that purpose is to shape me into a better person, I’m going to value the experiences that push my growth. I may not like those experiences, but my principle belief will allow me to appreciate the opportunities to accomplish my purpose. If my foundational principle is that relationships have no purpose other than to fulfill my wants and desires, I’m going to value changing partners in order to accomplish my purpose. We are often uncomfortable when we encounter someone who not only knows his/her principles, can define the values that express those principles, and then live according to both! I think that one reason people flap around without knowing what their values are is because they are unclear about what a value is. As a result, we confuse values for principles, and fight over preferences.

A principle is a truth – a fundamental belief – that lays the foundation for other truths. Principles shape our values. Values are the building blocks for principles. Values often change with cultural changes, whereas principles are timeless.

If my foundation is a belief that relationships have a purpose, and that purpose is to shape me into a better person, I’m going to value the experiences that push my growth. I may not like those experiences, but my principle belief will allow me to appreciate the opportunities to accomplish my purpose.

If my foundational principle is that relationships have no purpose other than to fulfill my wants and desires, I’m going to value changing partners in order to accomplish my purpose.

We are often uncomfortable when we encounter someone who not only knows his/her principles, can define the values that express those principles, and then live according to both!

]]> By: Tracy http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3083 Tracy Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:51:37 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3083 Hi Tim! I enjoyed this post, mostly because it gave me the warm fuzzy feeling of being right. My husband and I certainly do not have exactly the same values in the same order but it works because we're pretty accepting of each other. And I'm not sure if it's by luck or what, but none of our values directly conflicts, which makes it easier. We do disagree on a lot of matters, but it would be boring to be married to myself, wouldn't it? Hi Tim! I enjoyed this post, mostly because it gave me the warm fuzzy feeling of being right. My husband and I certainly do not have exactly the same values in the same order but it works because we’re pretty accepting of each other. And I’m not sure if it’s by luck or what, but none of our values directly conflicts, which makes it easier.

We do disagree on a lot of matters, but it would be boring to be married to myself, wouldn’t it?

]]> By: Sarah http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3082 Sarah Tue, 31 Mar 2009 02:18:01 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3082 I love this, Corey - Most of us are trained to think - from every bit of information we get and have always gotten - that what we "have in common" is the most important thing. And the truth is - we hardly EVER have what we think we have in common, and it doesn't matter anyway. If Matlin and Carville can be happily married - then surely this commonality thing is overrated. Seems to me that certain values are crucial, though - honesty, willingness to talk and listen about how people are feeling in the relationship, solving problems - and some similarities in energy patterns that are nearly impossible to quantify. Thanks for opening this discussion. Sarah I love this, Corey – Most of us are trained to think – from every bit of information we get and have always gotten – that what we “have in common” is the most important thing. And the truth is – we hardly EVER have what we think we have in common, and it doesn’t matter anyway. If Matlin and Carville can be happily married – then surely this commonality thing is overrated. Seems to me that certain values are crucial, though – honesty, willingness to talk and listen about how people are feeling in the relationship, solving problems – and some similarities in energy patterns that are nearly impossible to quantify. Thanks for opening this discussion. Sarah

]]> By: Pearl Mattenson http://www.simplemarriage.net/the-value-of-values.html#comment-3081 Pearl Mattenson Tue, 31 Mar 2009 02:07:57 +0000 http://www.simplemarriage.net/?p=1607#comment-3081 So while I agree with so much of what you say about values, I do have a slightly different perspective. I think there are values that belong to the relationship- that show up in the relationship system. The kind of thing you might find when you ask yourselves the question, "Who are we?" and "Who are we not?" I have been trained by the Center for Right Relationship and there are some novel ways of thinking about couples that are worth looking at www.centerforrightrelationship.com So while I agree with so much of what you say about values, I do have a slightly different perspective. I think there are values that belong to the relationship- that show up in the relationship system. The kind of thing you might find when you ask yourselves the question, “Who are we?” and “Who are we not?” I have been trained by the Center for Right Relationship and there are some novel ways of thinking about couples that are worth looking at http://www.centerforrightrelationship.com

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